Friday, August 21, 2009

A British Opinion


I stumble on this over at WTF is it now???. It's a article by columnist Johann Hari of the London Independent, entitled, Republicans, religion and the triumph of unreason.

It is such a disturbing article, I wanted to make sure no one who visits this blog regularly, miss it. Of course we all know these things here in the U.S., but to see it articulated by a foreign columnist, is jarring.

The article is not just about Sarah Palin, but about the GOP in general.

An excerpt:

A few months ago, a recent board member for several private health corporations called Betsy McCaughey reportedly noticed a clause in the proposed healthcare legislation that would pay for old people to see a doctor and write a living will. They could stipulate when (if at all) they would like care to be withdrawn. It's totally voluntary. Many people want it: I know I wouldn't want to be kept alive for a few extra months if I was only going to be in agony and unable to speak. But McCaughey started the rumour that this was a form of euthanasia, where old people would be forced to agree to death. This was then stretched to include the disabled, like Palin's youngest child, who she claimed would have to "justify" his existence. It was flatly untrue – but the right had their talking-point, Palin declared the non-existent proposals "downright evil", and they were off.

It's been amazingly successful. Now, every conversation about healthcare has to begin with a Democrat explaining at great length that, no, they are not in favour of killing the elderly – while Republicans get away with defending a status quo that kills 18,000 people a year. The hypocrisy was startling: when Sarah Palin was Governor of Alaska, she encouraged citizens there to take out living wills. Almost all the Republicans leading the charge against "death panels" have voted for living wills in the past. But the lie has done its work: a confetti of distractions has been thrown up, and support is leaking away from the plan that would save lives.

32 comments:

Pantsless Ponderer said...

I've often wondered how the British feel about the debate going on here in the United States. The GOP has been branding their health care system as an utter failure, and basically describing it as completely backwards and failing to live up to Western standards. You'd think there'd be more outrage being heard from across the pond.

Did you see Stephen Hawking's comment recently?

jadedj said...

Pantsless---the one in which he states that the British Health Care Service in fact, saved his life? Yeah, that one backfired on the bastards didn't it.

For a bit of background for those who might not know:

In an editorial on July 31, Investor's Business Daily warned of end-of-life counseling in health care reform, by saying people like Stephen Hawking "wouldn't have a chance" in such a system. Actually Professor Hawking lives in England, where he has been treated by their National Health Service. And by his own account, it saved his life.

jadedj said...

ADDENDUM": For anyone who wants to take a further look at British reactions to GOP criticisms of the British Health Care Service go here:

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view.bg?articleid=1191246&srvc=home&position=emailed

Mr. Charleston said...

Good post JJ. Among my daily reads is The Guardian, can't figure out how to hyperlink a comment, but it's easily found. A big British newspaper... Guardian.com I believe. Anyway, I've read any number of articles of how the Brits are really steamed. Even people who constantly complain about their system are defending it.
Maybe next time Simon stops by he can give us his views.

The fucking Republican strategy of avoiding the question by attacking the person who raises it is a legacy of Ronald "there he goes again" Reagan and the Newt. Why people idolize that clown I'll never know.

Moko said...

Palin's either cunning, or a total retard. I'm leaning to the right...

We just had a guy here in Au that had to go to court to fight for the right to STARVE himself to death in a care facility. Crazy, crazy shit. It's horrifically ironic that you've gotta figure out a way to throw yourself under a train for mercy.

Christina said...

Im a conservative republican who did not vote for President Barack Hussein Obama! My chatting buddy says Im nothing more than a right wing f**king zealot but your guy has got to be truthful with the American people especially the seniors in just what is covered in the House's healthbill and just what exactly he's going to ram down everyone's throat!
And also why are you left wing progressive liberals so hung up on former Gov. Sarah Palin?
The picture of the dead antelope or deer is so disgusting - how somebody could be so evil!!

jadedj said...

C---Yes indeed, avoiding the questions. Read two comments below, bro.

Moko---long time no see. Glad you stopped by. You hit it. The key word/phrase...crazy, crazy shit, controlled by crazy, crazy shits.

Christina---it's obvious that you didn't read two things...the article, and my profile.

Since I don't know you, I can't speak to your zealot proclivities. But, you certainly come across in a confrontational manner here. Which is of course, the opposite of meaningful discourse...and seems to be the Republican mantra these days. I wondered over on your blog what you were referring to regarding people who have a problem with you. I think I now know.

Truthfulness works two ways you know. What exactly is he NOT being truthful about? I don't understand that statement.
As to ramming, he's not ramming anything, in my view. But he needs to. What really amazes me is, you are so ready to believe the pap being put forth by the insurance companies, and yet they are your enemy...not this attempt to curb THEM. This plan is for you. But, hey, follow the Yellow Brick Road. Let's hope you don't ever get majorly sick, and get capped by the insurance mob.

Also you say left wing progressive liberals as if there is something wrong with that. There isn't. There is something wrong with lying, hypocritical life styles and opportunism...which is the problem with Sarah Palin that we left-wing, progressive liberal types have with her. As to the photo...she killed the thing, not me...and yes, that is disgusting. HER words are superimposed over the photo. Her lying bullshit words regarding so-called death squads. If you don't understand the Palin problem, then there's no hope for ya.

Judy AKA Sunny said...

Hi JJ, I'm getting around late to reading my faves blogs, but I made it!

Ohhh that poor ole deer. I hate when animals are killed....as they did'nt do anything wrong, just walking in the woods and Pow! Someone shoots them. :(

My first hubby's family is born and raised in the UP of Michigan and that's the way they live... off the land.

It just hurts.

jadedj said...

Judy---I was just a minute ago over watching your video. Good stuff.

Well, living off the land is one thing, and doesn't disturb me. But killing for sport does. If one can do that to such a magnificent animal, then I have to think they can do it to humans, also. No, I KNOW that for a fact. I've seen too much killing in my life. It lessens all of us.

Judy AKA Sunny said...

I agree, killing for sport disturbs me too. and yes, it lessens all of us.

Thankyou for watching, glad you like it!

Simon said...

Yes, as you can imagine, this hasn’t been received too well over here. All the papers and the media generally have been expressing themselves on the matter; the Guardian did several articles, but I suspect How does the NHS compare to US healthcare? may be the one Mr Charleston saw, or one of the other articles linked to within it such as 'Evil and Orwellian' – America's right turns its fire on NHS. This particular article does a comparison of cost per capita tabled against number of doctors per 10000 pop, hospital beds, life expectancy etc for a number of countries. You may want to take a look.

But to get back to your original point, we are pretty pissed off about it. Naturally we’re aware of the NHS not being perfect, but to hear or read some of this stuff is seriously irritating. Like Stephen Hawking, I pretty well owe my existence to the NHS, thanks to chronic ill-health since childhood, and personally find the US approach to healthcare deplorable. Yep, it’s fine if you can afford health insurance, but if you can’t, you’re buggered. There was one piece which I can no longer find about what would happen if you had some fatal but long-term illness: cancer or heart disease for example. In the UK you may have to wait, but you would get treatment. In the US, without proper private health insurance, you’d die.

I first heard about it a week or two ago from a fellow-blogger in Texas, who was telling me about Sarah Palin and her bizarre remarks about the ‘death panels’ that would result if an NHS type system were introduced in the US – he assumed I already knew.

Sorry about the length of that, but it’s a subject I feel pretty strongly about.

Lou said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lou said...

Sorry heaps of typos above.

Thanks for this post jj as only last night my son and I were all over the net trying to figure out where the 'pulling the plug' propaganda had started but we came up blank. Talk about distortion. I lived in the UK for a while and the NHS ain't perfect and neither is our own NZ version but for all their shortcomings (delays, sometimes unacceptably long delays, waiting for publicly funded non-essential surgery), we can't imagine a place where healthcare is only for the privileged.

Can you now explain where all the Nazi talk has come from as we can't make the link between socialism and outright fascism.

I guess we're only seeing the townhall meeting freaks on our news but do they not realise how completely idiotic they sound? Loved the guy comparing talking to that woman with talking to a sofa - can't remember his name.

Sorry for rambling on...

Punch said...

Moko...(my apoligies to all female readers, this is not about you) Sarah Palin is a cunt. Prove me wrong, please.
Christina... What is your middle name? Really no kidding? Why is that important? What is Rush Limpaw's middle name? What is Bill O'reily's middle name? What is Dick Cheney's middle name??? Please can you answer these questions? NO KIDDING.
I have a good insurance policy paid for by my employer, great stuff, I'm a single guy, so who wants to marry some bitch, like you, Pissed off at the less fortunate. Hell that would add over $220.00 US to my monthly bill. (I would expect you to say the same, 'who the fuck are you to tag on to my paycheck') LISTEN UPq!qqqq!!! I can only ASSuME that you have inshawence' READ the Full Pay out. Mine CLEARLY states if the fuckers have paid out $ 5,000,000 (five million dollars) they are fucking done. If that is not a death panel well what IS. Silly person? ARE you a dead atelope or deer or what, that is so disgusting-how somebody could be so evil!!! That is true. Please every one out there i have offended, please go and read you insurance policy. I suggest, strongly, you will find a clause that says they are quittes in the final 18 months of your life, and there is not a goddamn thing you can do about it.
Oh Buy the Fucking WAy, Chrissy if you lose your job what the fuck happens??? You are now an old broad, and out of work,through no fault of your own, and just 'cause you have worked all of your life and paid the money to the company store every month and they say "oh we have to downsize, 'cause of TAXES" "HIT THE ROAD, BITCH!" just 'cause of that you think it is OK. Pay attention. Girl.
Judy...hey this is Punch, I sold the alligator, got market rates for the hide and meat. I'm so very sorry about the... well that was a long time a go. I can only agree with you, but have to move to another concept. There stands a young american person, woman or man, just finished high school, center for the basketball team, the tight end of the football team, he/she/it (if they have their way) to call Celia Anne for duty in a war started by Texas Oil Men, and POW! some towel head shoot him/her/it, but he/she/it does not die, no he/she/it is allowed to live the by the grace, of the God, of George Bush and Rush no middle name, and Bill no middle name, and not that Alla shit for brains, hell they would rather die that pray to the God of Abraham. Dick Cheney said that had to. So he/she/it is put in a moldy room at the VA. Oh no the VA is great, 'cause Johns Hopkins is VA. well you get the picture.
Does Sarah really mean we get to eat all the Terroist we can shoot? I missed something? I know I did.
On an other thought what is the average age of the dead American Solider? Ok just over the last 10 years? REALY. WHAT do OLD WhiTE men, know about dying??? (they are fucking alive?)
REALLY.
REALLY.
Am I truly the only one that sees this?
Phooey.
I am so very sad to report to you that they do kill for sport in Afganistan.
All sides.
Simon...With the policy I have, one is good to spend $5,000,000.00 (us) of their money, but only if you spend another $5,000,000.00 of yours personally, so lets just say, just sayin' you are a rich fucker and you spend your goddamn lucky $5,000,000.00 bucks. From then on mutherfucker you are on your fuckin' ever loving rich ass. (just my take, I could be wrong)

(INTERMISSION) MORE to follow, this system, that is the greatest in the world, has a limit on the number of words. Sos i gotta post and continue...

Here is a question How many words are in the Gettysburg address? Extra points for correct answers.

later Or not

Punch said...

Lou...Typos??? I'll see you and raise you. Please ramble on. You are, on ramble with bench marks.
I will take a break here, and chat about my library.
I was able to buy the hand written copy of a Surveyor's note book, (after being transcribed by the surveryor, indoors, no smears or smugged pages) He was surveying the begining of Missippissi sometime around 1812. (this is a signed document) His notes read, more or less..."beginning at the creek running south, 33 chains in a easterly direction, on ramble. to a black Oak, 45" in diameter, thence north, on ramble, through a swamp, to an Elm 30" in diameter... What I learn from reading this book is that the surveyors of tender lands of freedom, must, at times state they are on ramble.
Man I hope this makes sense to someone.

jadedj said...

To everyone who I haven't responded tonight, it is late(here in the states), and I will be back in the a.m. In particular to Simon and Lou who are in extremely different time zones than I, I am so sorry, but I do appreciate your input, and I intend to address your questions and comments in detail, later. Your excellent questions deserve my attention. Punch, you are closer in time and space, but you will also have to wait a few hours. Just damned tired right now.

BTW all of you...beautiful, beautiful, beautiful responses.

Amanda said...

Hey, Lou. You might check out these two videos. The first is a clip from MSNBC's Rachel Maddow, reporting on exactly where the "death panel" propaganda came from. The second is a clip of Barney Frank telling that ridiculous woman that trying to hold a conversation with her would be like trying to argue with the dining room table.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32211804

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/18/frank.heath.care/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

My hat goes off to Barney Frank, dude. That was totally bad-ass; I wish I had the balls to call people on their shit like that right to their face.

Also, Punch...I don't know what to say with regard to your comments, except that "cocaine is a hell of a drug." :oP

Amanda said...

Also, J, continue rocking, my friend! I love stopping by here when I have time to do so. :o)

menopausalstoners said...

I suspect we all feel pretty strongly about this issue especially since propaganda and idiocracy have taken over what should have been a very brief discussion. Jaded, I hope you got to see John Stewarts' interview with Betsy McCaughey. Brilliant.
I hope one day people see that these insurance companies are as bad as the cigarette companies back in the days when they were swearing up and down there was no proven link between smoking and cancer. Good Lord - Richard Nixon was involved in instituting HMOs in the first place. Why look farther?

the walking man said...

When in the fuck did the debate change from health care reform to health insurance reform?

I personally am a far left wing zealot that wants all health insurance companies out of business and the entire health care system, from research to hospitals nationalized and all health care delivered to every American to come from one organization.

Medicare expanded to all in it's current form. $100 per month with a 20% co-pay for all non catastrophic services. No special options for the rich and no exemptions for congress, every one drinks from the same well period.

I don't want "insurance reform" rammed down my throat any more than I want the right wing nut jobs position of "profit before health" rammed up my ass.

Mr. Charleston said...

Ditto Walking Man.

JJ and fellow readers, check this out: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/aug/21/healthcare-provision-us-uk

Lou said...

Thanks Amanda will do. Right, it was a dining room table not a sofa - mixing my furnitures.

Punch said...

Amanda...If you say so.

themom said...

After watching McCaughey on on Stewart (sorry about the video), an easy conclusion was reached by me...she is f**kin nuts. I have read the same HR3200 - and I don't care that she has a PhD in whatever...she has added opinion and words that just do not exist. Much like all the rethugs out there who haven't even attempted to read this draft. What a scary bunch of people.

jadedj said...

Sorry for the belated replies everyone. Busy family day here. So, excuse the following, possible error prone comment on comments...didn't really edit it.

Simon---you have every right to be pissed, and so am I. These people have no shame, or conscience. They make this shit up as they go. Please believe me, not all Americans are this stupid.

I do appreciate your take on this. As always, it is well thought out, and well said. Thank you my friend.

Lou---the nazi/socialist label. I actually saw someone call President Obama a nazi-socialist-anachist-commie. Huh? There is no connection with these morons. What all of this is REALLY about is...we have a half black president, and the bigots cloak their bigotry toward him in other labels. It's not about health reform...it's about him.

These same fools also invoke God's name at every opportunity. It's an arrogant American attitude...God Bless America. What that really means is, not we HOPE God blesses America, what it means is, God blesses ONLY America, a white America. See?

On the Daily Show, there was a video of crazed protesters screaming that they wanted THEIR America back. Larry Wilmore, a black Daily regular, responded with, "tell that to the Indians."

We have some very stupid white people over here. Present company excluded.

The couch remark was by Congressman Barney Frank. A short video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjF4YjvJLe4

Thanks for your always insightful comments.

Punch---5 mil? Really? That's two open-heart surgeries, and one appendex removal...and maybe an aspirin or two. That's a good policy man.

Thanks for pointing out the dumb ass middle name regurgitation. I forgot to do it.

Believe me there are going to be some very surprised smug Americans, if we continue with the status quo health care system. And I'm talking about those who are in opposition to this bill. It will come back to them. Try telling my mother in law, who has MS and Addison's Disease, and who has lost her insurance due to capping out, and who is disabled, almost not able to walk, and definitely unable to work. She is on strong, expensive meds which takes precedence over food expenditures...and if it weren't for Medicare, her son and us, she'd be in a hellofa fix. Try telling her than health care in this country is better in the hands of private companies. It doesn fly. So, Christina may get her comeuppance yet.

Speaking of Afghanistan, etc. Have you wondered why these morons are not screaming about those ungodly expenditures. I have.

Gettysburg Address...272, depending on which version (yup, I googled it).

Part two: Sense has nothing to do with it.

Amanda---Hey, no see long time! Glad to see you are still kicking!
Thanks for the links and the kind words. Oh, and Punch and coke...he's actually more of a Pepsi kind of guy.

PE---I still cannot get that video to work. Possibly something wrong with my Flash Player. Need to figure it out, because I'm seeing reference to it everywhere. But, but, but...just read this on Crooks and Liars earlier this morning:
CANTEL MEDICAL CORP. (NYSE: CMN – News) announced that on August 20, 2009 it received a letter of resignation from Ms. Elizabeth McCaughey as a director of the Company. Ms. McCaughey, who had served as a director since 2005, stated that she was resigning to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest during the national debate over healthcare reform.

At this time it isn't known if McCaughey resigned voluntarily or if she was asked to step down, but one thing is for sure -- her credibility on any issue regarding health care, or reform of the industry has been destroyed. Oh well, at least she'll have more time to spend with her family!

Ha!

I love the cigarette analogy! And you invoked the Tricky Dicky, "I am not a crook", crook. He almost seems tame compared to this bunch.

wm---I am with you all the way.

Thanks C---I'll check it out.

Lou---couch, dining room table...the woman is still as dumb as both.

Mom---Read? You expect them to read? Jeez.

Comrade Kevin said...

At the Town Hall I went to, the Congressman himself even noted that criticizing the Brits in their own plan was off-limits to those who were asking questions. I appreciated that, at least.

jadedj said...

Comrade---well, at least one legislator realizes how shameful it is.

Take a look at this post at distributorcapNY today:
http://distributorcapny.blogspot.com/2009/08/its-time-for-mulligan.html

Judy AKA Sunny said...

JJ : hey! wow what a list of comments to go through! I read 'em tooo. :)

Well, I have my Part 2 of my PassAGrille Beach Videos posted....it's the fishing side of the beach. The famous downdown street is only 1 block long!

I love it there.

jadedj said...

Judy---and if there ever was a case for this legislation, it is you. Thanks for weeding through this, I do appreciate it.

Going to go over and see whatsa happin at PassAGrille :-)

Enemy of the Republic said...

I was amazed that anyone actually listened to that cow, Palin--perhaps Punch described her more aptly, but as a female, I cannot use that word to describe another female, even one that I loathe as much as Palin.

I am not following the health care debacle as I am sure Obama will fail because the insurance companies are rich motherfuckers who own Congress. He is doing this to fulfill his agreement with Kennedy who would only endorse him if he made healthcare a priority.

jadedj said...

EoR---Punch is on his own. I know nothing.

I fear you may be right.

This is how furious I am becoming...a post by distributorcap NY, today, is the best summation I've seen yet. It certainly expresses my feelings...it is worth a read:

http://distributorcapny.blogspot.com/2009/08/its-time-for-mulligan.html

Punch said...

E of the R...point taken